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1. Everyone had good points about Denver and it’s similarities vs differences. BUT i think everyone is being a little too proud to realize that most of what comes out of here looks like it was published in Comm Arts 1996 design annual. A lot of shops are running the safe illustration style spring color palette, some campy humor tagline and calling it clever.. Nope, it’s not.. I’m not even sure anyone in Denver reads books, or looks outside of their backyard for inspiration. There are so many styles and messages, and for the most part Denver only seems to do work for 35-45 year old men who love the Broncos, hike on the weekends and watch Lost. Where is the diversity.. I know its a small city in a desert, but still.

   — Lifter Baron · Feb 5, 10:14 AM · #

2. People are way too conservative and play things way too safe. No one seems to make any daring leaps or attempt anything other than the pseudo-expected.

   — Lifter Baron · Feb 5, 10:16 AM · #

3. Damn… you put the anger in Angermuller lately. :)

   But we will still miss you.

   — jMease · Feb 5, 10:38 AM · #

4. Lifter Baron is all about trash talking now that he’s on the outs.

   — The Denver Egotist · Feb 5, 11:02 AM · #

5. Hahahaha, no fellas.. I was being perceptively positive and poignant all at once. I still think there is a lot of good that can come from whats goin’ on here in Denver, but I believe some people need to come to terms with themselves before things can get better.

   Plus, I was looking to create a rise in emotion so people would be motivated to debate. Strong statements make strong rebuttals.

   — Lifter Baron · Feb 5, 11:10 AM · #

6. Lifter – Who would you consider a good example of a firm which pushes aesthetic boundaries, but does so without getting caught in the trap of doing work that will look dated in 4 years?

   Pick one local and one non-local.

   — The Denver Egotist · Feb 5, 11:33 AM · #

7. oh man Lifter, what scares me about your comments is that they assume that we are only targeting our own folks. At the rate that people are transplanting here… I am one of those, I think the Denver area is quickly becoming a more varied bunch. If I were to lump us all in to one group, I would say “Seeking and Outdoors Lifestyle” or something like that.

   When I first got here in 2001 I really thought that CO design was stuck about 5 years in the past, I blamed it on the isolation, and the fact that it seemed SO DIFFICULT to get in the door (are people only hiring their cousins or what?). But I was also making quick, uninformed judgements. Thanks to this site and a few yellow pages pages worth of AD firms I’m digging up more clever work. I know I used to really like what I saw coming from MATTER, and I can’t remember who I thought was lame. I wish there were a nice list of nationally recognized brand initiatives that I could compare that came from some granola fed minds.

   — MNDESIGN · Feb 5, 12:16 PM · #

8. I think there’s a flaw in our self condemnation. We see all the work from Denver—the good, the bad, and the tame. We see only the best of the work from other markets.

   It’s easy to hate the town, hate the community, and see the rest of the world as better. In fact, for some people the self-disgust helps make them feel better about their own ability to recognize good work, even if they aren’t doing great work.

   But there are incredible things coming out of our town. There are really smart marketers, brilliant designers, and writers who don’t suck.

   I hate the self-loathing-ness of this thread. I hate that we can condemn a whole city’s work with a broad brush.

   — AppleZ · Feb 5, 12:46 PM · #

9. The Baron is right 100%. (And it has nothing to do with his escaping Denver, it is the REASON he and the Baroness had to leave.)

   If you don’t understand that, or understand why, you are part of the problem.

   THIS IS A DESIGN TOWN. DESIGN FIRMS TRYING TO DO ADS. PRETTY PICTURES AND FUNKY TYPE FACES. WHERE IS THE TRULY CONCEPTUAL WORK? FEW AND FAR BETWEEN. UNTIL THIS IMBALANCE IS RECTIFIED, DENVER’S AD MARKET WILL ALWAYS BE SELLING ITSELF ON THE “WORK HERE TO ENJOY THE MOUNTAIN LIFESTYLE”, AND THE TRULY TALENTED WILL CONTINUE TO GET FRUSTRATED AND MOVE ON.

   — hack boy · Feb 5, 12:57 PM · #

10. I think whats more important than being cool or pertinent 4 years from now, is the ability to change with the world around you.. I think thats the message to convey. I don’t feel anyone here thinks like that.

    Obviously there are certain applications that require a piece to be relevant in years to come. But to me there can be a lot sacrifice involved in being current or relevant more so than safe for half a decade.

    As far as firms that push it… Thats a pretty hard question to address. Every does some good stuff maybe not consistently or maybe with different people being involved in each..

    On the Motion/Video side.. maybe the most current and aesthetically strong firm here is Spillt in my opinion. They’re maybe one of the only people doing progressive stuff for larger clients.

    On the Ad side.. Sukle or Cactus. They have done some really good things in the recent past. I remember when I first saw the Denver Water campaign, I almost shit when I found out the account was in town.. Cactus is pretty consistent as well. They have a lot of solid talent their.

    This isn’t to say one or two other people in town aren’t making way. I guess I’ll just give it to Sukle for being such a small team and staying smart. It’s hard though cause the FWIS guys were in town for a bit and I would have really loved to work with them.. They didn’t really have any super large accounts but always seemed to push it and stay current as well..

    Out of state is fairly easy to name some people but hard to narrow it down.. It also not fair to compare their opportunities to anyone here. Wolff Olins “RED” Campaign is fantastic in my opinion. I also think BBDO kills it on a lot of stuff. Most of the people I follow or really pay attention to are independents, the people behind the big studio names. Something that a lot of people never seem to pay attention to. But thats a whole other discussion.

    I hope I wasn’t too vague. I also want to say that I’m not trying to attack people’s effort. I would just love to see some people look outside of the box for once..

    Also to address AppleZ, I’m not saying people don’t try and I don’t hate it here because Im here. Im simply saying people are getting held back by the arrogance and the conservative budgets/trains of thought. It’s cyclical. Pay people like shit and you get shit work out of them. Shun their “odd” ideas and liberal concepts and lose the chance to win better accounts etc..

    Sorry for the length of post..

    — Lifter Baron · Feb 5, 01:15 PM · #

11. MNDESIGN: “and the fact that it seemed SO DIFFICULT to get in the door (are people only hiring their cousins or what?).”

    Man, I thought I was the only one feeling that. It sucks, but it does make me feel a little better that other people are going through it.

    — justin paluch · Feb 5, 05:53 PM · #

12. I feel like CO’s talent pool is gaining momentum in the spotlight. It is very exciting to see people get the recognition they deserve. I also feel like I have quite a bit more to give to this town creatively and I’m grateful to be in a place where I can play outside and still be a designer. The options of cities that can offer what Denver can offer in that respect are very limited. CO has been spared alot of the housing market woes that other places have suffered and that is GOOD FOR DESIGN PROS. And finally, I think it is awesome that ya’ll are so fired up on this subject! Only good things can come from this kind of exchange.

    — MNDESIGN · Feb 6, 05:22 AM · #

13. I would definitely have to agree with Lifter Baron on this issue. It’s almost impossible to find a job in this town and no one wants to pay creative workers any where close to what they’re worth. I think that there are a lot of firms in the Denver area that have some great talent. But they are constrained by low budgets to create anything awe inspiring.

    — Broox Pulford · Feb 6, 06:38 AM · #

14. BP—

    You had me until that last sentence.

    I think there are a lot of agencies here who hide their lazy, uninspired efforts behind low budgets.

    If you have a great idea, there are ways to get them produced. You just have to want it.

    Very few agency heads care that much about the work to EVER put it ahead of the bottom line.

    — hack boy · Feb 6, 08:28 AM · #

15. I don’t know you Lifter Baron but I wish you good luck in Minneapolis. Unlike here, I think you’ll find it to be a daily lesson in humility.

    — David Stone · Feb 6, 04:07 PM · #

16. As someone who has not taken my skills beyond state lines (other than a few contract gigs here and there)... I would be interested to see a compare/contrast interview with LB after he has spent few months in Minn.

    I would expect he could offer an interesting perspective on how the 2 markets compare.

    — jMease · Feb 6, 04:39 PM · #

17. Thank you Joe, for offering the suggestion. I would love to offer that information..

    David, not quite sure where you are coming from on that last comment, but I might mention caution as a suggestion in the composition and intent of your next…

    — Lifter Baron · Feb 6, 07:58 PM · #

18. You’ll understand once you’ve worked in Minneapolis. You won’t be in Kansas anymore, Toto.

    — David Stone · Feb 7, 04:37 AM · #

19. Personally, I think you can come up with great work anywhere.
    Yes, there’s a large difference between Minneapolis and Denver. But sometimes it takes that one person to get a city going. Crispin has been around in the sixties. When Bogusky came aboard it was Miami’s 7th largest agency. A decade later and…well, we all know that story.

    I’ve been following the pingponging on this and other posts surrounding Lifter Baron and Celeste. I agree that it always stinks when rising talent leaves town. Then again, talent also comes to this state. They come. They go. Just like every other market. What bugs me is when there’s fingerpointing at agencies/design firms in being shortsighted on not hiring. First of all, I can’t imagine there’s a hiring renaissance going on in Denver. McClain just laid off 100+ people in a market that’s teeny-weeny. Other local agencies are reeling as well, and in a country teetering on recession. CP and LB, I hope you find what you’re looking for in Minneapolis, I really do. For those of us in Denver, we have the golden opportunity to get Denver on the map. Or keep it on the map, depending on your perspective.

    — jay · Feb 7, 07:40 AM · #

20. If I was a designer/writer thinking about moving to the Denver area, and I read this thread, I would think twice. Do other cities bitch as much as Denver does? I think this blog is becoming way too negative from the comments, and overly depressing. Might be time to move back to my national blogs that are more positive and inspirational.

    — JRahr · Feb 7, 08:23 AM · #

21. lifter is gonna do great in minni. Ideas ,skills and creativity dont stop at colorados borders. He will be thrown into a larger market w a broader appreciation for art. Not to say denver doesnt has creative people its just that the creative community is small and not as culturally appreciated. Being thrown into a larger market, I can bet that lifter is going to grow a ton. He’s gonna learn more and be exposed to more. He’s gonna meet creatives that are far better and it will push him to grow. Plus the heavy hitters are alomost always wanting and willing to help other people grow…Its a love and appreciation for creativity that helps communities grow, not negativity. Art and design is a world wide thing and should be compared on a world wide level. If not your only hurting yourselves. Thers been a ton of talent that has left this state simply because LA, NY…and even kansas (MK12 BEATRICE) has a cultural appreciation for art… some of the most refreshing advertising is in the form of art.. check out psyops work among many others. From what I know all the local agencies doing inspiring work are doing it at a national level. There is a ton of good work being produced here for national clients… not just for the bottom line… but for creative expression, the c campaign is a good one. cacuts teaming up w buck?! I was like fuck yeah. Anyway, denver needs inspiration, like joy engine provides. the egotist needs to be respectable like motionographer.. everyone knows who runs motionographer and everyone respects those who run the site. the principle is still a student i believe.. gettin his masters, but still a student and everyone respects his opionion.. in fact its prob one of the most respected motion design sites around. W that said, kick some ass lifter + fine.. let the haters hate and focus on progress… one quick note.. sure some design work will be outdated in four years and some work wont be appreciated until four years, but thats why creativity is progression, and thats why communities need to be aware of what the rest of the world is doing, not so much to be competitive.. but to be progressive.. anyone see a pattern

    — espi · Feb 7, 09:22 AM · #

22. there are jobs posted on the job board…..
    have the people who are having a hard time finding jobs in denver applying for those jobs? are they not what you are looking for? have the positions all been filled?

    — p. brad · Feb 7, 09:41 AM · #

23. I totally agree with Espi on this. The negativity on this issue is a bit un-warranted. One must also take into consideration that we are in an age of technology where location matters less and less. A designer must think of her/himself as creating work for a GLOBAL community, not just a city. And when I say GLOBAL, I am not referring to just physical locations, as I am referring to the many types of media a designer is challenged with increasingly more today. On the broadcast side of things, this is especially true. The companies that are doing good work (anywhere) are looking at each specific project, brand, etc.. and how best to achieve there goals in such project without thinking of “what is going on in my location”. Asking questions like this seems to only build paradigms on your work and stifle your creativity.

    I think that if you believe a location’s “Originality” suffers, then I leave it to you as a designer, director, etc… to increase such level of creativity in your own work. Take risks, be progressive and most importantly HAVE FUN PEOPLE!!!!!

    There is my 2 cents☺

    — bwell · Feb 7, 10:09 AM · #

24. Here is one little piece of advice as well Lifter… check your fucking ego man, you just graduated school for fucks sake. You will be amazed at how far a little humility can take you, talent aside people still have to work with you… you know what Im saying?

    — Obama08 · Feb 7, 10:44 AM · #

25. Sooooo…..do we have a verdict?
    I say yes, indeed Denver creatives are competitive and original. And we get to snowboard every weekend. :)

    — MNDESIGN · Feb 7, 11:18 AM · #

26. brad : Yeah, I’ve applied for most of those. There is one that I still need to apply for though.

    I got a job within a month of moving here, but it’s not what I want, really. I’ve been looking on and off for about a year. I’ve had decent luck getting interviews, and those have seemed to go well, but that’s about as far as it goes. I’ve asked if there is an area where they think I need improvement, and it typically comes back ‘no, there was just someone that fit the position better’. It’s a competitive market, and as someone mentioned, there have been a fair number of layoffs.

    — justinpaluch · Feb 7, 11:19 AM · #

27. I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again and again… I love the fact that all of the people with the biggest mouths are the anonymous ones. And who gives a shit whether I graduated last sumer, I still have just as, if not more of a reason to voice my opinions than your washed up soggy ass.

    Denver will never be a place worth working/living if everyone wants to act like their shit doesn’t stink. If you don’t think Denver has room to grow or that there are some very important things to address before it gets better, than YOU are the problem.. Simple, no ego, no flair, just the truth.

    And if any of you wanna talk crazy shit do via email. But I’m done arguing with anonymous tools.

    — Lifter Baron · Feb 7, 12:45 PM · #

28. Lifter, looked at your work.. saw my name as one of your clients.. funny.

    Good luck with your move. As you move to a new market, respect your peers, look for partnerships that foster and improve your talents. It’s very likely that one or more washed-up soggy asses will be the source of your growth. You seem to have a lot to offer from looking at your book. Now take it to the next step. Both in your work and your professionalism.

    — Randall Erkelens · Feb 9, 02:39 AM · #

29. Good advice, Randall.

    Minneapolis is a clinic. Learn and grow from it. Respect everyone you meet. It’s a town where people truly love the work and it shows—in real stuff, in spec—there’s a lot of pride there. Good luck.

    — David Stone · Feb 11, 02:52 PM · #

30. perhaps the reason the creative is lukewarm (a lot of the time)is because DENVER as a CITY is lukewarm. where’s the culture here? if you are immersed in the grandness of a city (say, in nyc or chicago) you are more likely to utilize that for creating some badass stuff. plus you’re surrounded by the best in the industry. but let’s remember that we aren’t curing cancer here, people. we’re in advertising. we make ads, we build websites. it’s funny how seriously we take our jobs sometimes. if you are sick of the work coming out of denver, see if you can make it in nyc. probably not…unless you can thicken up that skin of yours.

    — lacky · Feb 15, 06:18 AM · #