Creative Crackdown, Honest Bros.
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We have differing opinions of the Honest Bros. work within The Egotist fold. Some of us are thinking about adding them to the recommended list and some of us would like to see more work out of them before a decision’s made. We’ve been honest with them about our take, so they thought a creative crackdown on their portfolio might be in order. In their words, “throw us to the wolves and see if we can still hold our heads high in the aftermath.” You asked for it, fellas.
Some of our friends from the outside will also be chiming in on the work – a team from TBWA\Chiat\Day, LA and a team from McCann Erickson, NY. We’ve also lined up a new team from Martin Williams, Minneapolis.
Go here to check out the work of Honest Bros. Then come on back and let them and us know what you think.
Comments
Fellow Circle Jerker May 12, 2008
I dont think its bad at all..
I dont think its bad at all.. Maybe a little too progressive for the Denver crowd though..
hack boy May 12, 2008
“Too progressive for the
“Too progressive for the Denver crowd” That’s frickin’ hilarious (and true from a design standpoint). It’s also frickin’ hilarious that Pure tapped them to do their work for them.
I’m really impressed with their design, but I think their concepts leave something to be desired, especially the Metro Denver stuff (an easy, expected solution).
Honestly May 12, 2008
We both used to work at Pure,
We both used to work at Pure, none of the work shown was done on a freelance basis.
hack boy May 12, 2008
thank you for the
thank you for the clarification, but if the work was done as a Pure employee, should it really be on your agency’s site? I could see it on your individual site, but not another agency’s site. It’s a bit misleading/confusing.
hack boy May 12, 2008
especially since the work is
especially since the work is on the Pure site also.
Ivy May 12, 2008
The Jackson Hole site says it
The Jackson Hole site says it was done by RTP interactive. I guess a lot of agencies are outsourcing their work…
Justin Times May 12, 2008
Apparently a lot of
Apparently a lot of ‘recommended talent’ follows this practice. The HIM Creative site has almost nothing but work done while some of those partners were at Xylem. I think some of those may have been done by Joe Mease Creative as freelance for Xylem, but I highly doubt he did all the creative, so having them in the portfolio is questionable. Come on, Denver… telling people that you worked on a project is one thing, but putting another agency’s work on your new agency’s portfolio is weak. I say NO to adding these guys to the recommended list at this time… wait until they have some of their own work as an agency. After all, being recommended talent should be about more than the ability to be creative… being a good agency requires the ability to attract new business, strategize the full solution, deliver with quality and the integrity to stand on your own achievements instead of taking credit for the effort of another team. That’s my not-so-humble opinion.
eli May 12, 2008
I think their work is great,
I think their work is great, good job Eric!
I know how hard it can be to get an agency started. People leave firms to start their own thing all the time and the work they did for ex-employers is perfectly valid proof of their capabilities. However, I think it is appropriate and necessary to mention where the work was done.
Best to be Honest.
e kiker May 12, 2008
Anyone you work for rents
Anyone you work for rents your talent, they don’t own it. If you can honestly say, “I did this work” (and not take credit for anything you didn’t do), you can show it with no excuses.
My vote is to recommend.
Thanks.
Gusto May 12, 2008
I agree with Eli. As long as
I agree with Eli. As long as each piece has the appropriate credits – where the work was done, and exactly what piece each of you worked on. You could easily step on some toes with the more general approach if you were part of a larger team. Overall I’ve always liked your work and wish you luck with your new venture. Nice site, and love your name, Honestly!
Joe Mease May 12, 2008
Well, since my integrity has
Well, since my integrity has been brought into question, I feel compelled to add a response.
As a contract resource, working with several agencies around town, I would effectively have nothing but tumble-weeds on my website if I didn’t showcase work done for the agencies I support.
It did, however, specifically design http://www.joemeasecreative.com with that in mind. I tag every project with the name of the entity i did the work for, be it direct, or through an agency, and I try to explicitly convey what parts of the project I was responsible for.
There are also projects that have never seen the light of day on my portfolio, as my clients occasionally ask me to work transparently given their relationship with the client I am helping them serve. And assuming the terms of the project are still mutually beneficial, I am happy to entertain scenarios like that.
So judge me if you will, but I stand behind my approach, and don’t intend to make false claims about what I have or have not done in my professional career.
Joe Mease May 12, 2008
and Justin Times, if you feel
and Justin Times, if you feel so strongly about your claims, why don’t you come out from behind your anonymous ways. ‘Cause in my opinion, attacking someone’s character from behind a veil of mystery… is weak.
AppleZ May 12, 2008
Another strong subject for
Another strong subject for discussion, although a bit of a tangent from the HB critique.
I feel that we are in an idea business. I look at people’s work to see how they think, not who they did the thinking for. It is not uncommon to see the same execution in an illustrator’s book, an art director’s book, a writer’s book and an agency portfolio.
Yes, failure is an orphan and success has many parents.
If you did the work, it belongs on your site.
jay May 12, 2008
I remember reading in CA
I remember reading in CA years back when Ground Zero got off the ground. They were pitching against Stein Robaire Helm, the agency the partners were formerly at before forming Ground Zero. Both agencies showcased practically the same work, as the partners of Ground Zero were responsible for a great number of ads that were on Stein Robaire Helm’s reel. Ground Zero won the account. (Can you imagine how awkward that must have been?)
Stuart Confer May 12, 2008
If you are a company in
If you are a company in Colorado and expect your brand to be differentiated, these are your guys. Originality and finesse are two qualities these guys have to offer. My vote is in.
hack boy May 12, 2008
Joe—
don’t feel it is a
Joe—
don’t feel it is a personal attack on the H Bros. This is a topic that has been a part of the industry for longer than we were all around (as Jay illustrated with the Ground Zero story). It’s a problem we even face with work in our individual portfolios when there are multiple creatives working on a single campaign. You just happen under the microscope right now.
There are some comments in this thread that are, let’s just say, less than constructive, but ignore those. More importantly, there are some great suggestions we should all consider, should we find ourselves in the same situation.
There’s an agency site out there who does a good job of delineating their agency’s stuff from work with other agencies and even spec with nav choices like “Ideas that Died” and “Work for other People” (I searched for it, but couldn’t find it, so if anyone can help me, I’d appreciate it.)
From what you’re showing from working at other agencies, I have no doubt you’ll piss off a lot of the mediocre agencies in town. I would dump the Denver Economic Development stuff though. It’s dragging you down.
M. Westfield May 12, 2008
It is an interesting ethical
It is an interesting ethical crossroads we’re seeing as so many agencies get bits of work from big clients – i.e. Izze’s Iron-on tshirt design web site is Vermillion, but Izze-esque website is by Texturemedia, both can claim IZZE as a client. That can be confusing. Agencies hire freelancers who in turn can claim the agency’s client as their client (technically).
When new agencies are created by those who’ve left another agency and display the work that was done while at that agency, it does make it sound like PURE hired Honest Bros to do their website which is not the case.
Is it representative of Honest Bros. design capabilities? Yes.
Is it actually work that was commissioned by clients of Honest Bros? No.
In time as Honest Bros grows its own client roster, will it replace the work done at PURE? It should (and quickly).
It is an ethical dilemma. In the meantime I vote to add them in.
hack boy May 12, 2008
Izze is a good example, and
Izze is a good example, and situations like that should be handled like Joe does on his Joe Mease Creative site where he lists the agency as the client when he is not working directly. Unfortunately, too many agencies nationwide aren’t that forthcoming.
And I don’t think Freelancers should claim an agency’s client as their own. Instead they should reference them as clients they have done work for and, if it’s a piece they use in their portfolio, credit the agency as the client.
heather Crank May 12, 2008
The work is beautiful, I love
The work is beautiful, I love it! I vote to add them in as well.
Madlibs May 12, 2008
IZZE.com and IZZEesque.com
IZZE.com and IZZEesque.com were both designed and developed completely in-house by Texturemedia. The t-shirt microsite was designed by Vermilion (the agency that designed the new logo and packaging).
As to Honest Bros. I definitely say “add” – their portfolio aside – I have recommended them to a number of clients and they have done some great work that was unique, on time and exactly hit the client’s needs – ADD!
Gregg May 13, 2008
As owner and CD of Pure, I
As owner and CD of Pure, I think I can shed some light on the credits, and will tomorrow. My battery is dying. Stay tuneed.
Gregg May 13, 2008
There is a lot of speculation
There is a lot of speculation about who did what on the work that’s on the Honest Bros site. So here’s the honest truth. I don’t think either one of them will dispute any of this.
Eric and Ryan are both talented designers. If I didn’t think so, I wouldn’t have given either one of them a staff job. And I did. Which is why a lot of the design you see on their site was created at Pure.
Agencies don’t create work. People do.
So who deserves credit for the Pure work on the Honest Bros site? I like to think the creative director may have guided some of it, especially the concept-driven stuff, but they don’t represent anything that they didn’t have a hand in.
I hope this will help some of you gain perspective. It’s hard starting a shop from scratch. Give them extra credit for cajones.
Gregg May 13, 2008
Grinder:
I agree with pretty
Grinder:
I agree with pretty much everything you said. It can be misleading. (Am I the only one that sees irony in the name of the “shop” being discussed here?)
I would prefer that they represent themselves with work that wasn’t done for my clients—and paid for by those clients, and me.
That said, I don’t want to begrudge anyone the opportunity to honestly portray themselves and reach for their goals.
To me, the ultimate irony is that I appear to be defending the very folks I separated ways with because they were starting an agency on my time. And my dime.
Honestly May 13, 2008
I’d be interested in knowing
I’d be interested in knowing what everyone did when you struck out on your own. How did you show work that you did at a previous employer…
PalmerPolanski May 13, 2008
I say “ good riddance to old
I say “ good riddance to old rubbish”. Get it off your site and move on. Good luck!
Joe Mease May 14, 2008
When I originally went off on
When I originally went off on my own in the summer of 2005, I was fortunate enough to ramp up with as much work as I could take on almost immediately, so the fact that my website was relatively baron, with a couple outdated flash intros, the andytitus.com website, and a couple other friend & family projects like logos and business cards, ended up not too much of an issue.
Within 6 months, I started to build a decent collection of project case studies, including some work for Coors and Killians (Through Integer), some Chipotle and McDonald’s work (through Xylem), and a few other illustration and direct client projects.
Anymore, my website is more of a quick resource to show existing and potential clients a collection of examples of how I might have solved a similar problem/task for another project.
Most of my workload comes from word of mouth, and repeat business with the agencies I work with.
Rog May 14, 2008
What about the work on Pure’s
What about the work on Pure’s site in their archives section? Or did Pure have Lexus, Denver Zoo, etc. at one point in time? How’s that different than what Honest Bros. are doing?
Gregg May 14, 2008
Okay, this is the last I’ll
Okay, this is the last I’ll say about this.
I show work from previous agencies in my “archive” section because I did the work. Which is the primary reason I have no problem with Honest Bros showing the work they did at my agency to promote themselves.
Personally, I find it more offensive when agencies merchandise themselves with work done by people who have long left that agency. I have never wavered in this opinion.
Court Crandall put it well when he said, “Do you want to hire the people who did the work or the place they sat when they did it?” Of course the lines get a bit murky when the creative team sits at separate agencies.
My acid test? Don’t post the work if its lineage is ambiguous.
PalmerPolanski May 14, 2008
OMFG ! thanks Rog. I would
OMFG ! thanks Rog. I would love to have Pure on the Creative Meltdown. The archive is the best part of their book and its not even Pure’s!
steve whittier May 14, 2008
Reading this just confirms my
Reading this just confirms my respect for Gregg. Well handled with class.
Gregg May 14, 2008
Thanks, Steve. As one of the
Thanks, Steve. As one of the few (along with Joe Mease) who participates in this forum without a cloak of anonymity, I value your opinion.
For the others, when you start a new shop, unless you steal a former client (unethical) you use historical work to represent yourself. Or I guess you could plop an empty portfolio on the table because those are your only two choices.
Why should anyone throw away work because they were elsewhere when they created it? Why is it okay for freelancers to have work from a multitude of agencies and feel no obligation to share credit with all those people who contributed to it?
Rog and Palmer, what do you represent yourself with? Only work you did for a direct client, with nobody else’s involvement whatsoever?
It’s complicated isn’t it?
hack boy May 14, 2008
Grinder—
the FWIS site was
Grinder—
the FWIS site was exactly the one I was thinking about. I knew someone would save me on that. They did handle it the best I’ve seen. No possible chance of confusion. We should all take note of their example.
kyl3 May 14, 2008
curious why Izze is even part
curious why Izze is even part of the discussion? When someone posts a project done for Nike, does everyone assume they did all the past work for Nike? Companies normally outsource design from many companies over their life span. Relationships blossom then wilt and sometimes die.
kyl3 May 14, 2008
A better comparison would be
A better comparison would be to look at brian miller’s portfolio(link broken in the ‘local talent’ section). Izzeesque’s site was designed by him while at Texturemedia and he states that in the credits.
Also I believe TDA did the original izze logo.
Jordan May 15, 2008
This is fast becoming more an
This is fast becoming more an issue for The Ethicist than the Egotist.