The Egotist Wants Your Opinion
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We get a fair amount of less-than-stellar work in our inbox. As of yet, our policy has been to put it out there and let people comment. We figure if someone is local, and they’re taking the time to send us their work, then they at least deserve to be mentioned.
We feel that it is important to keep the city’s collective finger on the pulse of the industry. If there’s a lot of crap being sent in, then that should probably tell us all something.
We’ve gotten a fair amount of flack for this policy, however, and want to put the question to you guys. Would you rather we play a more curatorial role on this stuff, or would you rather we just put it all out there for the world to see? In either case, try and make an argument for your position.
Comments
Michael Wilson January 26, 2009
Brian has a great point. If
Brian has a great point. If the criticism could be constructive, it would provide a great service in potentially increasing the quality of Denver’s work.
The Denver Egotist January 26, 2009
Brian – are you suggesting
Brian – are you suggesting that the Egotist community needs to be better at providing constructive feedback, or that The Egotist needs to do a better job of providing feedback in its posts?
Or both?
All in all, we agree either way, but sometimes the shop is so bad that it’s like “.. where do we start?”
Lar January 26, 2009
I’ve been reading this site
I’ve been reading this site from the very beginning and I can tell you that there has hardly been any constructive criticism here. Not for lack of trying, but more because a post on a blog is hardly the appropriate forum for that type of teaching.
Egotists and I disagree on many many things, but I have a sense that Egotist(s) know what’s good and what’s not. Stay true to “Helping Denver suck less” and just put on what’s good. You have a good sense of that. Putting up bad work and having anonymous posters write 50-word comments like “it’s 90’s art direction” or “Saatchi did that same idea 6 years ago” will not help anyone.
Bottom line is, this is not an appropriate forum for teaching. It’s a forum for web snippets and drive by comments.
Paul Suggett January 26, 2009
Have to disagree somewhat
Have to disagree somewhat Lar. Although I do think TDE should highlight good work, it’s also an important part of the mix to say “what’s with this campaign?” At college, some of my best work came out of getting the shit ripped out of it by my peers in a WIP meeting. Same at agencies. If TDE is trying to help Denver suck less, it can’t be all being that over-praising parent.
bwell January 26, 2009
Coming from a broadcast
Coming from a broadcast design standpoint, we have industry sites that have a similar issue. What I have seen work best is when you have one site that features the best of the best it allows strong discussion on said work, as well as a point of reference for a caliber of work one should strive for. This also gives said site a clear example of the work caliber in that given area. In this case, us broadcast designers have motionographer.com, which is extremely critical of any new work on the site. On the other hand, we also have more of a forum, http://www.mograph.net. This site allows for anyone to submit work and have it critiqued honestly, both technically and stylistically. While these are two separate entities, they each have specific purpose and benefits which help an individual achieve their creative goals. If you want to have a place that really defines the best of Denver in order to showcase Denver as a creative location, then you absolutely must filter those that don’t meet your standards. After all, this is an opinion based site and the creator’s opinion of this site is how it all began. Its often hard to be both a feature site and a site that allows for anyone to post without losing track of your goals to “help Denver suck less.” At the very least, it gives those who aren’t making the cut a clear representation of where they need to be creatively, thus hopefully increasing their skill. I guess in the end it is up to you to decide what exactly you want to achieve with Denver Egotist. Hope my 2cents help:)
Lar January 26, 2009
Think you missed my point
Think you missed my point Paul. I’m not against criticism, I’m just saying that the other half, the “constructive” half, cannot be appropriately distributed in this forum.
Let’s say you designed something, and sent it to the Egotist. Let’s also assume it’s not half bad. But when the egotist posts it, you’re really not going to get any feedback that is constructive in any way – but I’m sure you’ll garner a lot of criticism.
Does that help denver suck less? I don’t think so. I don’t think you’re really going to internalize some random comment by an anonymous poster and learn how to be a better designer. Or writer. Or director, or whatever.
In the end, critics need to have a deeper understanding of the project before they can offer up any valid advice on make it better. This just isn’t the place to do it.
So, TDE, my opinion is, post the good stuff so everyone can see how high the bar is, and let the ones who are self motivated try to beat that bar. That’s what’s going to help denver suck less. Not posting crap for anonymous critics to shoot at. Come on. We’re better than that.
Randall Erkelens January 27, 2009
I agree, this isn’t school
I agree, this isn’t school where we’re all throwing-in our advice on how to make a piece better. Let’s leave it up to TDE to post whatever and let whatever get posted. It’s not like many people really comment on that much stuff anyway.. There’s more chatter about these types of topics than constructive conversation. Why don’t any of you write four paragraphs on the Taco Bell dog lawsuit or Shepard’s obvious plagiarism. Obey is worth more than the diatribes I just read.
Joshua W January 27, 2009
While growing up I played a
While growing up I played a lot of sports. I grew accustomed to picking out the marquee players in each sport I played and breaking down both their technique and mechanics. Did this turn me into an all-star or marquee player? No. Studying these things did however; help me to bring my “game” to the next level. Everyone needs a coach in whatever they do; whether you are a ballplayer, CD or even the President of the US. TDE’s mission is to help…(you all know it).
TDE needs to provide a forum in which “green” creative types can submit their work to be critiqued by their more experienced peers. There is not enough time in the day for TDE to pick apart each and every piece of work and offer constructive criticism. I have read this (TDE) since May ’08 as a way to better appreciate people that make up “creative side” of an agency; in preparation of graduating from college and working my way up on the “account side.” Many nag TDE for not living up to their motto, as if they are supermen and can affect change all by themselves. Maybe, instead of nagging, you should stand up and lend a hand to help Denver Suck Less.
Community critique of local work is a perfect opportunity for YOU to help make Denver a more creative, progressive and all inclusive advertising community. Think back when you first started in the industry. Was your work top notch? Were you just naturally gifted and had no room to improve? My guess is hardly. Maybe you had a mentor figure, who gave you advice, that helped you elevate you game to the next level.
I know there is a lot of talent that frequent this website. They (YOU) should take it upon themselves (yourselves) to lend a hand.
***Unless you want Minneapolis to keep stealing local business.
Andrew Hoffman January 27, 2009
TDE is a great resource as
TDE is a great resource as is. By showcasing “good” work it is a privilege to be featured on TDE. If you don’t get posted then you got to step up your game, thus making Denver suck less, daily. Also, I’m sure the minds behind the Egotist have full-time gigs, the bandwidth needed for a full-on forum could pose some issues. Besides I want to see the best-of-the-best…not a critique on a logo using Microsoft word art.
Brian W. January 27, 2009
ya, i agree andrew. i see
ya, i agree andrew. i see enough crap advertising and design in my daily life.
i go to blogs to see cool stuff. set the bar, don’t show it. not sure what that means but it sounds profound.
this isn’t ad school, it’s a professional blog. if you need an opinion, go to a creative director you respect. pop into an office or put your work up in the hallway. if you’re really desperate, shoot me an email.
plus, the work posted is produced. so critiques won’t make them better.
be boo ba… now i question the work you guys have posted of mine… will the insecurity ever end? sadness with an upside-down smiley face w/ tear emoticon. :’-(